Overcoming ALL: Sage’s Journey Through Treatment and Recovery

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[00:02:36] Kate: In today’s episode with Maryanne, you will hear her conversation with Sage Wilder, a remarkable individual whose journey with acute lymphoblastic leukaemia is both challenging and inspiring. Sage’s story begins when he was at the peak of his physical fitness, working and playing rugby league. But after experiencing extreme fatigue, it led him to seek medical attention, and that resulted in a life changing diagnosis.

[00:03:06] We’ll learn about Sage’s initial treatment that was under a clinical trial, and then how he went on to receive a stem cell transplant, and his father actually was his donor. Sage will share about how a strong mindset and commitment to physical fitness played crucial roles in his recovery. And in the heartwarming turn of events, Sage will also talk about his life post treatment, including his relationship and the joy of welcoming a child into his family.

[00:03:39] A possibility that seemed unlikely during his cancer journey. Join us as we delve into the story of Sage Wilder, an inspiring journey through blood cancer and beyond. Stay tuned for an episode filled with courage, hope and triumph of the human will.

[00:03:58] Maryanne: Welcome. My name’s Maryanne Skarparis and together here with me in the Talking Blood Cancer podcast room is Sage Wilder. Thanks Sage for joining us here today.

[00:04:09] Sage: Thanks Maryanne for having me on board. I really appreciate it.

[00:04:11] Maryanne: Now, Sage, how we start these conversations, which is really important for us is to hear a little bit more about who you are, where you were at, at diagnosis and what did that diagnosis, how did that diagnosis impact you?

[00:04:28] Sage: Yeah, for sure. Well, it was back in 2000 and oh 16 now. It feels like a blow now, but, uh, 2016 I was playing rugby league. I was working full time. So basically, you know, living a, a fun life at 22 years old. And, it was, it kind of took a turn when I was playing footy and I found like, I just didn’t have the energy to, to play.

[00:04:51] And I knew there was something, something was going on a bit and then, it was two days after that where I was actually, had to take two days off work. I found myself being stuck in bed and just not being able to move, and just having those night sweats and everything. Little did I know all these symptoms were, you know, aligning to, be Leukemia really.

[00:05:11] But it wasn’t until mum was like, okay, I think it’s time to go to the doctor. Let’s go get a blood test. So thanks to mum, we went up there and, yeah, we got a blood test. And literally that afternoon we got a call from the medical center, and they said, I think it’s best that you come back and we’ve just got your results basically.

[00:05:28] And I remember we got to the medical center, and it was this big long hallway to the doctor’s office. Because we literally got there, usually it’s about an hour and a half wait, and they said, oh the doctor’s waiting for you.

[00:05:39] Maryanne: Oh,

[00:05:40] Sage: So, okay, no worries. So we walked all the way to the end. It felt like a, you know, it felt like a kilometer walk.

[00:05:45] Anyway, we got in there and we sat down, and I could see the doctor was just, a bit hesitant in uh say, what he had to say really.  And then he got to the point of like oh, we’ve got your results back and you’ve got leukaemia.

[00:05:58] Maryanne: What type of leukaemia Sage?

[00:06:00] Sage: Uh, ALL.

[00:06:01] Maryanne: Acute lymphoblastic leukaemia. Mm-Hmm. Wow.

[00:06:05] Sage: Uh, yes, so that’s the one. So obviously it was a bit of a shock and mum and I again, we’re sitting next to each other, and we couldn’t really look at each other in the eye because we just knew, as soon as we, we did we’d break down. So, we just heard from the doctor what he had to say. He said oh, we’ve already booked you into the local hospital which was, uh, St George Hospital. They’re waiting for you. So we basically left the doctor’s office, and as soon as we opened that door I just felt like the world just changed. Like everyone was like, looking in.

[00:06:35] Maryanne: Mm.

[00:06:36] Sage: It felt like everyone’s eyes were on us as we’re walking down that long corridor again.

[00:06:39] Maryanne: Yeah. Mm

[00:06:40] Sage: And then we got outside and mum and I just basically burst into tears really and, we kind of hopped in the car just thinking what happened. And I had to make a few phone calls obviously, to my boss and let him know and, let my best friends know as well.

[00:06:55] And then we literally went straight to the hospital and, it kind of unfolded from there really. I had to do, go through a bit of a trial process because I had two options of, my treatment basically. So, with that trial process, I had to have a bone marrow biopsy. 

[00:07:10] Maryanne: Yes.

[00:07:11] Sage: And, so they needed to collect a bit of data from that. And, after being there, so I didn’t do my chemo at St. George. 

[00:07:19] Maryanne: Right.

[00:07:20] Sage: I was basically there just so they can monitor me for the time being until I made the final decision of where my treatment will be. And then they decided that my treatment was going to be at Prince of Wales Hospital.

[00:07:30] Maryanne: And why was that Sage? What were they offering you treatment wise?

[00:07:34] Sage: So, I had an offer to do a trial treatment.

[00:07:38] Maryanne: Right.

[00:07:39] Sage: And, I believe with a trial treatment, they were trialing a hundred people. And I think I was the 73rd person to trial.

[00:07:46] Maryanne: Right.

[00:07:47] Sage: All over Australia and New Zealand. And they, because they gave me the opportunity to, they put everything on the table saying, look, this is how it’s gonna be like. So basically, cause I was a young adult, they were gonna trial me as a, a child basically. 

[00:08:01] Maryanne: Okay.

[00:08:03] Sage: So with children, from my understanding with children, they get chemo quite frequently because they’re able to adapt and, withstand, I guess, the intensity of the chemotherapy so they can bounce back quicker.

[00:08:13] Whereas adults are every, you know, a few weeks. That was from my understanding at the time. So we chose to go down that route and yeah. So we went to Prince of Wales and it was basically, it was like four weeks on, four weeks off, four weeks on, four weeks off, I believe. Where they did, you know, intense chemo and then backed it off for a little bit and brought me back in and, so yeah, that was the best option really that we had.

[00:08:36] Maryanne: So with that, was there a big distance for you to travel during that time? Having, you know, from home to Prince of Wales, was there a lot of distance for you to get to the hospital? And how did you manage that time emotionally and physically?

[00:08:53] Sage: Yeah, great question. So when I started off at Prince of Wales, I was there for five weeks. So for me, obviously it wasn’t a problem because I wasn’t really leaving my room, but it was more for my parents because, especially mum, my mum and, um, my friends as well because we live in Cronulla and Prince of Wales is in Randwick. So it’s about 45 minutes on a good day.

[00:09:13] Maryanne: Yeah, long way. Mm

[00:09:15] Sage: Yeah, so a bit of a long way, but once I got out of hospital and had to go in three times a week, actually, after the chemo stint. Yeah, emotionally I was like, I was okay with the first section of my, uh, treatment just because, I didn’t really get hit as hard at the start.

[00:09:35] So, I just felt, I felt okay. But towards the end, I kind of, yeah, I didn’t really want to go in at all because I knew what was coming, obviously. So, it was that emotional feeling of being like, I don’t want to go because I know how it’s going to make me feel. So, it kind of put me down quite a bit.

[00:09:52] Maryanne: It is a rollercoaster ride, isn’t it? You know, that emotional acceptance of, you know, this is what I understand what chemotherapy can do. I’ve had that lived experience and if that’s what I have to face, I’ve got that hesitation to want to have to go there again. And it’s hard to have that adaptation to, well I’ve got to put that first foot forward this is the treatment that I’m meant to have.

[00:10:16] Sage: Most definitely, yeah. It’s just, it’s unknown really.

[00:10:18] Maryanne: Yeah. What helped you the most during that time? What do you think helped you the most during that time?

[00:10:24] Sage: Obviously number one would be, the support I had from, not only friends, but more from family as well. Like, my, my mum was my rock, my sister was my rock as well. Um, but even just, you know, all my close friends, they just, they were so helpful and understanding, like they were just there by my side, like, my four best mates, the night, or the day I got diagnosed and had to go to St. George Hospital, they literally stopped what they were doing and came straight there. So, they even take a few days off work just to be by my side. So that was motivating, inspiring for me to be like, okay, I’ve got people in my corner, you know?

[00:10:59] Maryanne: It’s a part of your healing isn’t it? To know that you’ve got, you’re surrounded by love, it’s a component to health and well being isn’t it?

[00:11:07] Sage: Yeah, I think, look, love’s a great medicine. 

[00:11:09] Maryanne: It is a great medicine.

[00:11:10] Sage: Love is one of the best medicines you can get.

[00:11:11] Maryanne: Absolutely, and I love that you’ve brought that out because I think sometimes it’s underestimated the importance of feeling a sense of safety, belonging, love, you know, that helps us feel cocooned and nurtured to be able to face whatever it is, even if it is unpleasant, it helps us with our strength, doesn’t it?

[00:11:31] Sage: Oh, most definitely, even like just physically and emotionally it helps us, you know? Like, again, going through treatment is such a rollercoaster. You just don’t, like, one day you can be feeling, not on top of the world, but you’re feeling pretty good, and then the next day it’s just like yeah, just the total opposite.

[00:11:47] But having that support base there just to pick you up is so helpful. You know, my grandparents were amazing as well. They were constantly coming in throughout the week.

[00:11:57] Maryanne: Lovely. 

[00:11:58] Sage: Grandma was bringing her homemade food in, which was the best as well.

[00:11:59] Maryanne: Yeah, hospital food.

[00:12:01] Sage: During that period I was on, oh, It’s just more the fact that I think I was on a certain drug that they were giving me. It just, my hunger levels just increased, and I am already hungry but,

[00:12:09] Maryanne: Steroid.

[00:12:10] Sage: They just doubled. Yeah, that’s, that was it. Yeah, Prednisone. So, Grandma’s cooking helped.

[00:12:16] Maryanne: Oh yes, it’s a lovely drug.

[00:12:18] Sage: Oh, yes, it sure is.

[00:12:19] Maryanne: Tell me Sage, was the trial the only line of treatment that you’ve had?

[00:12:24] Sage: Uh, yes. So, I had the trial for the ALL and that went for several months. Then after that, I had to go into a bone marrow transplant as well, which was a trial too.

[00:12:34] Maryanne: Okay. So who was your donor with your transplant?

[00:12:38] Sage: So, it ended up being my dad. 

[00:12:40] Maryanne: Okay

[00:12:41] Sage: Now, prior to that, it took them a while to figure out who it was going to be because they couldn’t find a 10 out of 10 match.

[00:12:48] Maryanne: Can we just, ask you, because it’s interesting for listeners to understand about the option of transplant and donors. Now, your background, what background are you, Sage? You come from?

[00:13:01] Sage: So, half American, half Australian.

[00:13:03] Maryanne: Which is a lovely combination, but half American, half Australian, if you look at matches on the bone marrow donor registry, there’s probably a bit of a limitation of resources there. Because we need to improve our registry numbers so that we’ve got more options for people like yourself. So the doctor’s tested family, over to you and found your father?

[00:13:26] Sage: That’s correct. Yeah, so I do have a sister and normally they do go with siblings, but because we’re half siblings, they did do a blood test, but they said it wasn’t a, a good match, from their standpoint. So, it came down to either mum or dad and they chose to go with dad really. And, yeah, very fortunate for that because obviously I don’t think I’d be here without that too or, I’d still be here but it’s just,

[00:13:49] Maryanne: What year was that Sage?

[00:13:50] Sage: 2016 as well. So back end of 2016.

[00:13:54] Maryanne: So 2016 Sage for you was quite a big year, Mm.

[00:13:58] Sage: Yeah, it was a huge year. Yeah. So, I mean, the, the treatment was, it was heavy and it was intense, but fortunately enough it was only for like a short period of time when you look at it. Like, it was from late April to about February 2017.

[00:14:14] Maryanne: Okay. So you mentioned that you were a league football player. Is that right?

[00:14:20] Sage: Yes, that’s correct. Yep.

[00:14:21] Maryanne: Do you feel that your physical fitness attributed your health and wellbeing, you know, to help you with your recovery or your, you know, your approach to treatment and transplant. Do you think your physical wellness impacted how you managed treatment and how you managed transplant?

[00:14:42] Sage: Yeah, I strongly believe so, for sure. Like fitness has been my, it’s been my life for, since I was five, really, you know, playing rugby league. It’s always, it’s been my number one hobby, really. And it was funny, like, it was a big realization of going from such a busy schedule of, like, working and playing footy to being in a hospital bed, like, the next day. Like, it was just, it was a bit, you know, hard to comprehend because, yeah, just because I was always on the go. So, my number one thing was to, you know, to get back into physical health, really, and, you know, get back into training. But,

[00:15:17] Maryanne: How’d you do that?

[00:15:19] Sage: So, once I recovered from the bone marrow transplant, which took about, three months or so,

[00:15:24] Maryanne: So you know, I’m going to tease that out because there’s a lot of people who listen to these podcasts who either are about to embark upon a transplant or are early days from transplant. So let’s look, if you don’t mind, Sage, just at back at that time, following your transplant, what did you put in place to get you to get your strength back?

[00:15:47] Did you put a regime in place? Did you put something in place every day? Did you have someone who mentored you and ensured that you went out and participated in certain exercises? What did you do? What choices did you make in that commitment to improving your physical well being?

[00:16:06] Sage: That’s a great question. So, the number one was probably the urge and the hunger to get back into training.

[00:16:12] Maryanne: Mm,

[00:16:12] Sage: Just because I really, I really love training. It’s just, my life really. So it was the urge of, okay, getting back to feeling stronger again and just, I think seeing your body adapt, you know, throughout the treatment was a bit of a shock too as well. So obviously at that time you have to just let it go and just be, okay, it is what it is really. Cause you can’t let it get to you mentally. But it’s more just,

[00:16:37] Maryanne: So that acceptance.

[00:16:39] Sage: Yeah, just accepting it and be like, okay, look, we’re just out of season right now. But, you know, we’ve got a lot to look forward to once we’re outside of this season and, you know, fortunately enough, I’ve got a dog too, and walking him was amazing as well.

[00:16:52] Like, I’m fortunate enough to live in Cronulla where there’s amazing beaches, so going for, you know, for walks was very therapeutic for myself. You know, even by the ocean, but really it’s, yeah, it’s just more about getting back into, I guess, how I was prior to our treatment.

[00:17:09] Maryanne: So for you, it was commitment and it was also closely connected to your purpose and your passion. You know, your purpose of wanting to, okay, I’m going to make this commitment today. I love my dog and I love the ocean and I really valued how I felt when I was physically fit. So following through on that purpose and that, you know, that mission to want to improve your strength on a daily basis got you better.

[00:17:37] Sage: Yeah, definitely. Like, once I knew, obviously I was having regular checkups as well, so I always made sure that I wasn’t going beyond what my doctor was saying. Um, because I had to tread lightly as well. So, yeah, it was more just, once I got to a point where I knew I could spread my wings a little bit, as they say. I could, get back into the gym, which, you know, I love being in the gym, and that was really helpful for me, and yeah, building that routine with, I had a coach at the time, that was helping me, you know, with getting back into strength training as well, so. I found that super helpful.

[00:18:12] Maryanne: Yeah. Good for you. Good for you. So you sourced people who were going to help you. You did the right thing and listened to your body. So when you weren’t feeling strong, you actually surrendered and gave in and just let your body rest. But you kept that vision, having a good vision of how you wanted to see yourself as that strong Sage in the future. And you just kept chipping away to get to that stronger vision of yourself.

[00:18:37] Sage: Yep, that’s correct. Yeah, I think it was just that, fuel, that hunger to get back to just normal life, and just. I think for me, as well, it’s more just leaving what just, what I just went through behind too. As well, like obviously it’s still going to be there and it’s still with me every single day as well. You know, just have, have little flashbacks here and there, but it’s more just, just going about your life, you know, trying not to let that deter your future. You know, it’s more just, okay, it’s a bit of a roadblock.

[00:19:05] Maryanne: You mentioned that your grandparents, your mum, your sister and family were your main, you know, main line of support. Moving forward when you’ve rebuilt yourself, how does, and your friends, your friends were always a strength for you as well.

[00:19:20] Sage: Pretty sure, yep.

[00:19:20] Maryanne: Has relationships been a struggle for you moving forward post treatment, sharing with someone?

[00:19:28] Sage: Yeah, I did find, like, I went through a period of like, oh, I just don’t know if I can, you know, if my story’s gonna be compelling enough for someone else out there. Which I guess, looking back at it, it was a bit of a bad mindset, really. But fortunately enough, I found like the most incredible person I could ever ask for. And we’ve been together now for,

[00:19:52] Maryanne: Where’d you meet?

[00:19:53] Sage: We actually met at that gym that I was training at after treatment. 

[00:19:56] Maryanne: Oh after transplant.

[00:19:57] Sage: Yeah, so she’s kind of, she went through a bit of hardship herself as well. And just with injuries and everything and I think after that we just both aligned really. And we could share a lot of, relate to a lot of things as well, which is super helpful. Especially going into, uh, like a relationship and, um,

[00:20:16] Maryanne: Were they difficult conversations to have Sage? You know, when you’re starting a new relationship, especially feeling that vulnerability that may sit with you even today, even though you’ve built that life you now have. But it’s a vulnerable time, on reflection, for what you’ve been through. Was that difficult conversations to have with your partner?

[00:20:37] Sage: I didn’t find it difficult, no, because

[00:20:39] Maryanne: No.

[00:20:39] Sage: We, we kind of knew each other’s stories. And, I think it was actually, it was lovely to share our stories. I say that lightly, but I say that because we could, there was so much that we could relate on, of just like, oh yes, I remember feeling that way. This is how, you know, this is what helped me, and so forth, and it kind of came to a point towards the end of, you know, that discussion was like, oh, we kind of wish we were there for each other, you know, during that time, so

[00:21:08] Maryanne: Like a true empathy, you had a true empathy for each other’s lived experiences.

[00:21:14] Sage: Definitely, you know, and I feel like sometimes you, you meet people and you, you know, you share your story, even if that’s with dating or what not. And you know, some people, might not connect with what you’re saying, and some people just connect. So, yeah, it’s a funny one, but fortunately enough, like, you know, again, I’m just forever grateful for my partner, and she was fully acceptable of, you know, what I went through as well, and she’s been super supportive ever since.

[00:21:41] Maryanne: How lovely. And how long have you two been together?

[00:21:44] Sage: We’re approaching about five years at the end of the year.

[00:21:47] Maryanne: Five years. See, you know, you look at how time quickly travels. And it’s when you have to retell the story. I don’t know if you feel this, but certainly people that I’ve had conversations with in this studio room, they have a bit of a disconnect you know, with either the transplant or the treatment because it’s a fair bit of distance down the back, or it’ll um, bubble up a whole heap of emotion for them. Do you find even just sharing a little bit with me here now, do you feel that it’s resurfaced some of those feelings that you may have felt years ago or?

[00:22:21] Sage: To be honest, no. I say that because, like, it still comes up and then throughout the day, for sure. Like, there’s that, realisation of like, okay, this happened and so forth, but I think now I’m at peace with it.

[00:22:33] Maryanne: Are you a spiritual person?

[00:22:35] Sage: Not spiritual, no, but

[00:22:36] Maryanne: No.

[00:22:38] Sage: I’ve done a lot of work on myself, like recently especially, of like, just self development and just, being at peace with, you know, certain things. And I feel like it was probably about two years, two or three years after, I was just like, you know, I can let go of this now. Otherwise, I just feel like it was just holding me back. Like, it was still fresh, obviously, and it’s still going to be that way. But it’s more just, okay, I’ve got a life to live now. Like, again, I’m married, I’m working full time, I’ve got a beautiful son now as well, so, you know.

[00:23:08] Maryanne: Well let’s now, can we sit there and find out about all of that? That’s just lovely news. And so let’s go back to the girlfriend who you met at the gym and you shared a connection and you’re able to sit and share quite, you know, that you’ve both had some challenges in life and that probably what strengthened your relationship, over to you.

[00:23:32] Sage: Yeah, so, we basically, it was one of those realisations too, it was just like, as soon as we met and we started talking, I was like, okay, I know she was the one for sure, like straight away. So, we’ve had such a beautiful relationship, like we’ve done so much already, and yeah, so take it back to, uh, 2022.

[00:23:50] So, obviously, you know, as you were just asking before regarding, how did I feel bringing up this conversation of my past history. The tough thing was, I think saying that, look, unfortunately, I’m not sure whether I’ll be able to have kids naturally or not, just because due to the chemotherapy and the treatment. And that’s what I was told from the doctors as well. Look, she was super supportive of that too. So again, I’m forever grateful. And 2022 came along and it got to a point where it was like, okay, well, should we, let’s start trying for a baby, really? And I was like, okay, you know, but again, I had that, unfortunately, I did have a, negative mindset towards it, of like being, oh, I’m not sure if it can happen naturally and everything like that, but, yeah.

[00:24:34] I remember coming home after work one morning and my partner was sitting on the couch and she was like, super excited. And then, anyway, she just, she basically, brought out a test from behind her back and gave it to me and she just started crying. I was like, no way! And she’s like, yeah. And then, I don’t know, that moment was just so beautiful and special, just knowing that, it just happened.

[00:24:56] Maryanne: I could see that in your face. I can still see that in your face.

[00:25:00] Sage: Uh, it was just,

[00:25:02] Maryanne: How lovely.

[00:25:03] Sage: It was beautiful. I couldn’t ask for anything more. And now, like, ever since, you know, going through the pregnancy or watching my partner, going through pregnancy and giving birth was just special as well. And,

[00:25:15] Maryanne: Sage, can I ask you, it was natural, wasn’t it?

[00:25:18] Sage: Yeah, she had a natural birth as well.

[00:25:20] Maryanne: No, no, but you, you, she, got pregnant, was it from, sperm you had stored before your trial?

[00:25:27] Sage: Uh I did yes. 

[00:25:28] Maryanne: Or was it a natural, yes, yep.

[00:25:29] Sage: So, I did store some because that was a part of the protocol for the treatment.

[00:25:34] Maryanne: Yes, which is good.

[00:25:36] Sage: So I did go back to that clinic and, they could see that it was a small percentage of activity being there, which was good. But, yeah, so we did fall pregnant naturally.

[00:25:46] Maryanne: Lovely.

[00:25:47] Sage: Yeah, which was a huge, huge surprise but a beautiful blessing.

[00:25:52] Maryanne: Absolutely. And what’s your childs name? 

[00:25:54] Sage: Ziggy. 

[00:25:56] Maryanne: Ziggy, oh, how gorgeous. Yeah. And how old is Ziggy now?

[00:26:00] Sage: He’s about 17 months now, and uh

[00:26:02] Maryanne: 17 months, so nearly ready to kick a football.

[00:26:05] Sage: Almost there, he’s almost there, yes, for sure. So, but he’s been, honestly, he’s been just amazing. It’s been beautiful to watch, you know, him grow and develop, and I think being a dad too now, it’s just like. It’s just the best experience. Every week just gets better and better and, couldn’t ask for more really.

[00:26:23] Maryanne: Doesn’t it? Absolutely. And are you someone who keeps a, like a, keeps a journal of, you know, the different events that happen in your life? Are you someone who, you know, notes down special days to celebrate or reflects on certain times of the year or?

[00:26:41] Sage: Not necessarily, no. Like I, I did have like, certain dates to celebrate such as my remission date. A date when you know, I did get diagnosed. But no, I didn’t really journal at all. I just kind of

[00:26:56] Maryanne: No

[00:26:57] Sage: Yeah, that was just, wasn’t me at the time. 

[00:26:58] Maryanne: Edged in your memory

[00:27:00] Sage: Yeah, that was, yeah, for sure. And, you know, I think just speaking to others as well helped.

[00:27:04] Maryanne: I love that mentioned that speaking to others helped you. Because now you’re in that really valuable position where people are now looking at you. And that will, you know, what you share will help them. So in, trying to capture what you’ve shared with me here, we’ve looked at your diagnosis and how much your family, and your friends really, that love and support and sense of belonging and always feeling nurtured was a key ingredient in helping you move forward. You’ve also shared that your purpose and passion in wanting to maintain or get back to that physical fitness, which is something that you enjoyed, was also a really important ingredient for your health and wellbeing. Even just choices, you’re in the gym and you’ve met the life partner and you’ve just been blessed with Ziggy.

[00:27:56] They’re key things that, you know, that I think shouldn’t be ever underestimated about maintaining that beautiful, opportunity and vision to embrace life for whatever it may hold.

[00:28:08] Sage: Most definitely, yeah.

[00:28:10] Maryanne: You know mentioned you’re back at work now having to juggle parenthood, work. Was returning to work post transplant a difficult thing for you to do or?

[00:28:19] Sage: The only difficult thing was just having that limitation. Just knowing that, okay, like, obviously I had to correspond with my doctor about this, but I basically had to get it all clear that, my blood tests were aligned, like everything was aligned and perfect. Great. But for me personally, like I was ready to go back into work.

[00:28:38] Maryanne: Mm hmm.

[00:28:38] Sage: I found that, I remember prior to the transplant, the doctor saying, oh, you know, it can take up to a year, for you to start feeling better after transplant. But, he told me this story about a kid who was like 18, he got a transplant, back surfing, like three and a half months. I was like, Oh, okay.

[00:28:55] I always had that in my mind. I was like, Oh, I’d love to be in that position. So I was kind of striving for that. Yeah. basically was, you know, got back into surfing or training, around that time as well. So, but for me, like, I was ready to get back into work and just live a normal life, really.

[00:29:11] Maryanne: Okay. I think that’s really strong and important to agree. That’s that mindset that you mentioned, isn’t it?

[00:29:17] Sage: Yeah. So yeah, I believe just like having a strong mindset and a positive mindset helped me massively. Like, and I do take that full credit to playing rugby league like throughout my years like, that did help me develop a really like strong mindset like leading into this as well. But, I think just when you can really control your mind and your thoughts because at the end of the day too like you’re the one that’s there in the hospital bed by yourself, you know you can have the all the support in the world but as soon as they go and that door shuts it’s just you. And I feel like obviously in hospital you don’t have the best sleep and you can get up at night and like your mind’s racing as well but. Yeah, it’s just all about controlling your mind, how you think, and yeah, just those positive thoughts that you can create within yourself. And I think looking into the future of like, okay, what you’re going to do, you know, once you get out of this treatment, I think that can be super helpful.

[00:30:13] Maryanne: I love the power of the mind. When you look at mindset, was there a, a verse that you repeated? Was there a show that you immersed yourself in? Was there something that you told yourself every day that became your mantra? Did you play music? How did you, what helped you in that, to support that mindset that you embraced?

[00:30:38] Sage: Yeah, I was definitely listening to music, like, I’ve got a happy song that I was playing regularly, and

[00:30:43] Maryanne: Oh, what one’s that one Sage? I’d love to know.

[00:30:45] Sage: Okay, it’s, uh, B. B. King, Lucille.

[00:30:48] Maryanne: Sing me a bell. Can’t think of it.

[00:30:51] Sage: Uh, I’m a terrible singer, but it’s a beautiful, like, a blues song, basically, it goes for about 11 minutes, 

[00:30:55] Maryanne: Okay.

[00:30:55] Sage: Um, but

[00:30:56] Maryanne: Lovely.

[00:30:57] Sage: Yeah, that’s my happy song, so I was playing that quite regularly, and, it’s not that it was, I just liked the melody of it. It was just nice and calm, really. But no, I wasn’t really, telling myself any, like, affirmations or anything like that.

[00:31:08] It was just more of, like, I think it, again, it stems from, you know, playing rugby league and just having that mindset of just keep pushing through, really. 

[00:31:17] Maryanne: Yep.

[00:31:18] Sage: Just because I related to, like, how, training was or game situation, really. 

[00:31:24] Maryanne: Yes.

[00:31:25] Sage: So, yeah, and I think, you know, the big thing was for me too, I saw how emotional my mum was at the start of, um, this whole journey really. And it was just like, okay, if she’s upset I can’t let her see me upset. So that gave me fire to be like, okay, everything’s going to be okay. And I think having that too on my mind, it was super helpful. So instead of worrying about me, it was more worrying about my mum or others, you know, because yeah, if they were emotional, I’ve got to be their light really be like, no, you know, it’s, it’s okay. We’ll get through this, you know, so that helped me massively.

[00:32:03] Maryanne: So now you’re a dad, you know how your mum feels. You know, when you’ve got that little baby in front of you.

[00:32:10] Sage: Yeah, for sure.

[00:32:11] Maryanne: Um, and the connection of parent and child is, significant, isn’t it? You know, you take on their, their hurt. You wish to take their pain away or, just to reassure them that you’re alright.

[00:32:22] Sage: Most definitely. It’s so beautiful, that connection you have with your kid.

[00:32:24] Maryanne: Mmm. Absolutely. And well, we’re lucky you know, some kids don’t get that. So, Ziggy’s very lucky to have someone who’s committed. And I guess if you look at all of the commitments that you have made. Football, family, relationships, both parents, sisters, and your friends. And then of course, now you’ve got your, partner and, Ziggy.

[00:32:48] That’s all coming together. So, you know, often at when we’re finishing off, our conversations with people like yourself that we’re so grateful that you’ve spent time with us because your story is so valuable to people who want to listen to how people get through different challenges in life.

[00:33:07] What would be your key message, just a one off token that you think, okay, well, I took that on when I started all of this. And I think that was my key message.

[00:33:17] Sage: I love that. I love that you do that. well, there’s so many avenues I can go really, but

[00:33:20] Maryanne: Yeah. Go them all.

[00:33:22] Sage: I think to, even though it’s super challenging, but to smile when you can. 

[00:33:28] Maryanne: Yep.

[00:33:29] Sage: It’s really tough, but it depends how you look at it, but for me, like, I just know what helped me was , being happy and obviously you got your dark days there too, but when you can be happy, you can actually give value to others as well. Like I know you’re in a really tough situation, but when you can take it off yourself and put it onto someone else, that can be super helpful as well.

[00:33:49] And I say that in the fact of like, that lift my spirit of, you know, I know I was going through some tough times. But when you can make someone else, either happy or just show them that you’re okay, or it could be whatever really, but I think just in that time, just, yeah, if you can give back to others in a way that makes you happy and uplifts you, then I think do that.

[00:34.13] Maryanne: Warms your soul.

[00:34:14] Sage: Yeah, for sure. But yeah, I think just, you know, taking care of your mindset, just, If you can, feel it with positivity. You know, like, again, it’s funny to say that, but it’s just like, I know it’s super tough times and like, sometimes you try to be positive and it’s just not happening, but yeah, just keep showing up for yourself.

[00:34:33] That’s all I can say.

[00:34:34] Maryanne: I love that Sage. And I love that you’ve spent time with me. you’ve really shared some really, nourishing thoughts and ideas for people to run with. Just a smile. I’m just looking at your face in how you’ve shared, you know, Ziggy and different challenges and even your friends. You do smile acknowledging those connections in your life and that in itself is valuable.

[00:35:00] So thank you, Sage. I’ve loved spending time with you. And, um, I really appreciate that you’ve been a part of our Talking Blood Cancer podcast.

[00:35:08] Sage: Oh, well, thank you so much for having me on board. I really appreciate the time and having a lovely conversation with yourself. And, I hope everyone out there who is going through a tough time, I hope you guys get through it and, yeah, always, you know, feel free to reach out to someone, even myself or others that have gone through it and, there is light at the tunnel for sure.

[00:35:28] Maryanne: And keep smiling.

[00:35:29] Sage: And keep smiling.

[00:35:30]